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Skills and Attributes

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Editor's note: This original version of this guide is available at: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=242786. The only changes of the content were made in order to format it for a wiki. Ferrer 13:26, 2 December 2005 (EST)

With the Apocrypha expansion, the way how races work was changed. Much of the following is based on the original work of Hardin, which was edited by Tripoli. The changes for Apocrypha were done by Mimichi 12:32, 10 August 2009 (UTC).

For a list of skills see Category:Skills

Contents

Attributes

Every character in EVE has five attributes, which define how quickly a character in EVE is learning skills.

The attributes are Intelligence, Perception, Charisma, Willpower and Memory.

Prior to the Apocrypha expansion, bloodlines and profession defined the starting value of attributes, which could then be slightly adjusted by player. By now, all attributes start at 8 points (7 for Charisma).

Attributes can be trained in-game via Learning skills and augmented with cybernetic implants.

Attribute Levels

Due to the "Learning" skill multiplying the attribute levels by 5% per level, attributes can possess fractions. However, they are displayed in whole numbers only. The displayed number is truncated, not rounded. Even if an attribute displays as “20” it could actually be 20.96, which can amount to a significant difference in skill training time (see below).

The Learning skill does also affect cybernetic implants.

The actual attribute value is calculated using the following formula:

( base + skill lv + adv skill lv + implant bonus ) * ( 1+ ( LearningLv * 0.02 ) )

Example:

  • Base Intelligence 8 with Analytical Mind 5 and Logic 2 grants 15.0 attribute points.
  • With Learning 4 it's (8+5+2)*(1+(4*0.02) = 16.2
  • With a Basic cybernetic implant it's (8+5+2+3)*(1+(4*0.02) = 19.44

Attribute Remapping

To make up for the loss of customisability of attributes at character creation, the concept of attribute remapping was added. It allows the player to adjust the own attributes in-game. New characters start out with the capability to remap the attributes twice. After that, every 6 months another option to remap attributes is made available. This capability was given to original characters as well.

Base attributes (not counting learning skills and cybernetics) have a value range from 4 to 15 points (including). They cannot be adjusted past these borders. In addition, no attribute base can be lowered by more then three points in the same remapping attempt.

No other limitation exists, an all freed points can be moved to a single attribute if desired.

Skills

Skills are what really matters in the end. They allow you to pilot ships, use systems and become more efficient at what you are doing. Skills have a level from 0 to 5.

Before a skill can be trained, a skill book has to be acquired and read (skill book's context menu: "inject skill"). The skill then is added to the skill choices at level 0. It does not grant any benefits at this time, but can now be trained up. Skills can only be injected if the requirements are met.

New characters train skills twice as fast as older characters. The bonus is removed at 1.5 million skill points.

Skill Training Time

Originaly researched by Tripoli. Note that this calculation was done in September 2005 and may have changed by now.

Skills are learned by acquiring skill points (SP). Skill levels cost roughly five times as much as the previous skill level in SP.

To learn how long the skill needs to be trained to advance a level, the exact value of the attributes - including fractions - are required.

The required attributes for learning a skill are stated in the skill information. The secondary attribute has exactly half the influence on learning time as the primary attribute.

The following formula can be used:

( SPNeeded - CurrentSP ) / ( Primary Attribute + ( Secondary Attribute / 2 ) )

This will yield the total number of minutes remaining.

Example: Missile Launcher Operation training from 45,255 to 256,000 SP (level 4 to level 5). Primary attribute is Perception, Secondary is Willpower.

With base Perception of 4 and Willpower of 7, Spatial Awareness lv 5, Clarity lv 3, Iron Will lv 5, Focus lv 2, Learning lv 5, and both relevant Basic implants, your attributes would be:

  • Perception is (4+5+3+3)*(1+(5*0.02) = 16.5
  • Willpower is (7+5+2+3)*(1+(5*0.02) = 18.7
  • (256000-45255)/(16.5+(18.7/2)) = 8,152.61 minutes or 5 Days, 15 Hours, 52 Minutes, 36 Seconds.

Attribute Effects on Skills

Below is a list of the various skill groups and which attributes are typically primary and secondary for them:

Learning Skill Payoff

Learning skills are also discussed here.

Constantly debated is how worthwhile it is to train any of the 11 learning skills (especially the so-called “advanced” learning skills) up to level 5.

To summarize a few key points for training the various learning skills are as follows:

  • “Learning” from level 4 to level 5: 140 Days
  • The 5 attribute-enhancing advanced learning skills from level 4 to level 5: 3 Years, 235 Days, 11 Hours, 3 Minutes, and 38 Seconds
  • The 5 (not yet released) Elite learning skills and “Advanced Learning” from level 4 to level 5: 4 Years, 155 Days, 11 Hours, 55 Minutes, and 25 Seconds

This “payoff” time is defined as the total skill points invested in level 5 learning skills divided by average improved training time per minute.

It should be noted that the lower your base attribute, the more beneficial higher levels of the learning skills are.

Learning Skill Order

The following is a literal quote from the original WIKI entry.

People who are very interested in training the various learning skills often ask in what order it would be best to train the skills. Though it does vary slightly character to character, the following list will give you a pretty good idea for the most effective order to train the skills. When you finish this list, you’ll have all five basic skills at level 5, Learning at level 5, and all five advanced skills at level 4. It is important to note that this is not a typical method and that a spreadsheet was used to calculate the absolute least amount of time. EVEMon does not give the best possible time either (Edited 9/10/07 by Marvin Lamb; Revelations 2.2)

Changes from previous version -

  • Learning 3 needs to go after Eidetic Memory 3
  • Analytical Mind is best learned after Learning 3 (Both after Eidetic Memory 3)
  • The order of training for the Perception, Willpower, and Charisma related skills is unimportant excepting that the level 5 basic skill needs to go after the level 4 advanced skill for a particular attribute.
  • Time to Train all Skills -- Old Version 63d, 2hr, 37m, 13s
  • Time to Train all Skills -- New Version 55d, 2hr, 50m, 58s
  • Time listed above assumes Memory 6 and 10 Intelligence 10 (the original Achura scientist character choice). The time above does not account for skills received from Bloodlines, and career choices nor implants. This will typically knock a day or 2 off total training time. Implants addressed at the end.

Optimal Training Order

  • Instant Recall 1
  • Analytical Mind 1
  • Learning 1
  • Instant Recall 2
  • Analytical Mind 2
  • Learning 2
  • Instant Recall 3
  • Analytical Mind 3
  • Instant Recall 4
  • Eidetic Memory 1
  • Eidetic Memory 2
  • Eidetic Memory 3
  • Learning 3
  • Analytical Mind 4
  • Logic 1
  • Logic 2
  • Logic 3
  • Eidetic Memory 4
  • Learning 4
  • Logic 4
  • Instant Recall 5
  • Analytical Mind 5
  • Learning 5
  • Spatial Awareness 1
  • Spatial Awareness 2
  • Spatial Awareness 3
  • Spatial Awareness 4
  • Clarity 1
  • Clarity 2
  • Clarity 3
  • Clarity 4
  • Spatial Awareness 5
  • Iron Will 1
  • Iron Will 2
  • Iron Will 3
  • Iron Will 4
  • Focus 1
  • Focus 2
  • Focus 3
  • Focus 4
  • Iron Will 5
  • Empathy 1
  • Empathy 2
  • Empathy 3
  • Empathy 4
  • Presence 1
  • Presence 2
  • Presence 3
  • Presence 4
  • Empathy 5

For the average player without implants, this process would take about 53 days and you’ll be training 2.36 times as fast as you were to begin with. Though it would eventually be worthwhile to train the advanced learning skills to level 5, it can literally take years to make up the time spent training them. That said, many people do actually max them all out, myself included.

Implants

Implants, like learning skills, can also boost your attributes and save you significant training time. At the moment it is possible to get implants that add anywhere from 1 to 5 points to any given attribute. You can only plug in one implant per attribute. Implants are destroyed if you try to remove them from your head. So once you have unplugged one it cannot be reused. Removing the implant will destroy it. Implants are also lost if you are pod-killed.

To be able to use implants you first need to have trained the “cybernetics” skill. (In order to train Cybernetics you need the “Science” skill at level 3). Implants can be obtained by doing agent missions (a lot of them) or by buying them off the market from other players.

Remember, implants will be lost if you get pod-killed; therefore, you may want to think twice about buying and installing a full set of implants if you are likely to be operating in dangerous areas.

2nd Character For players starting 2nd characters and with access to roughly 60-80m ISK (+3 Implants) or 100-120m ISK (+4 Implants), the training time can be shortened significantly by using those implants.

For +3 Implants insert this training into the above list:

  • Instant Recall 1
  • Analytical Mind 1
  • Learning 1
  • Science 2 -- contained in starting skillset since Apocrypha
  • Science 3 -- contained in starting skillset since Apocrypha
  • Cybernetics 1
  • (Install +3 Implants)

This cuts overall training time by roughly 10 days to approximately 45 days.

For +4 Implants insert this training into the above optimal list:

  • Analytical Mind 4
  • Logic 1
  • Logic 2
  • Logic 3
  • Eidetic Memory 4
  • Science 2 -- contained in starting skillset since Apocrypha
  • Science 3 -- contained in starting skillset since Apocrypha
  • Cybernetics 1
  • Cybernetics 2
  • Cybernetics 3
  • Cybernetics 4
  • (Install +4 Implants)

Training is slowed to about 48 days over +3 Implants but you don't waste isk or LPs on a set of +3 implants. If you plan on using advanced implants like the full Snake set or +5 to +7 attribute implants then implanting the +4 Int and Mem implants now then going for Cybernetics 5 might be advisable.

General Tips

  • To date, charisma is generally considered one of the less useful attributes in EVE. Currently there are relatively few skills that have Charisma as a primary attribute. It is likely that this attribute will become more useful as the game progresses and content is added, but at this point it is easily the least useful. Right now, it is good for people who wish to make a living doing trading and running agent missions, but its usefulness doesn’t extend very far beyond that, especially when compared to attributes like Intelligence and Perception.
  • Try to maximize your attributes in any areas where you will be doing lots of training. For example, Navigation skills all have Intelligence as their primary attribute and Perception as their secondary attribute, so if you are about to embark on training all your Navigation skills to level 4 or 5, then boosting your Intelligence and Perception will save you a substantial amount of time.
  • Another thing that people often wonder about is the “Rank” of a skill. It is actually very simple what the Rank of a skill implies. The higher the rank, the longer it will take you to train. Now, it’s not that it takes you longer to gain 1 skill point, it’s that it takes more skill points to finish a level of a skill. A Rank(2) skill will take exactly twice as long to train as a Rank(1) skill because it requires twice as many skill points.
  • Always have a skill training. If a skill is due to complete in 2 hours and you know you are going to be away for 14 hours, then switch the training to another skill that will take 14 hours or more (you do not lose any progress if you stop training skills or start training other skills). When you get back home you can switch back to finish the original skill and then you will have avoided losing any skill training time.
  • Personally, I [Tripoli] think a balance of attribute points in Intelligence, Memory, Perception, and Willpower will serve you best in the long run. Even if you intend to be an ace fighter which requires high Perception and Willpower, a lot of the secondary skills that are required to make a really good fighter (such as Engineering and Electronics) require good Intelligence and Memory. Intelligence and Perception are, in my opinion, the most important attributes in the game.

Starting attribute breakdown

Each bloodline has unique starting points for different attributes. In addition to this, each bloodline also has three different ancestries to choose from, which varies the starting points quite a lot even within a single bloodline. Since this determines how fast your character can learn skills in a given skill category, you might want to take a look at the starting attribute breakdown before choosing a bloodline for the character role you have chosen.

Although the differences in learning times might seen trivial with lower skill levels, it is however noticeable with higher levels (4 or 5).

Starting attributes per bloodline and ancestry

Values <6 are considered weak, 6-8 average and >8 above average. Bold value indicates the best starting value of the attribute.

Bloodline Ancestry INT CHA PER MEM WIL
The True Amarr Liberal Holders 7 6 4 6 11
Wealthy Commoners 7 4 4 9 10
Religious Reclaimers 7 3 4 6 14
The Ni-Kunni Free Merchants 5 12 7 6 4
Border Runners 6 8 10 6 4
Navy Veterans 5 8 7 6 8
The Khanid Cyber Knights 6 5 11 4 8
Unionists 7 7 8 4 8
Zealots 5 5 8 6 10
The Deteis Merchandisers 7 6 5 11 5
Scientists 10 6 6 7 5
Tube Child 7 6 5 7 9
The Civire Dissenters 5 8 9 4 8
Entrepreneurs 5 6 9 8 6
Mercs 5 6 9 4 10
The Achura Inventors 12 3 7 6 6
Monks 8 3 9 6 8
Stargazers 8 3 8 9 6
The Gallente Activists 6 12 8 4 4
Immigrants 6 8 10 4 6
Miners 6 8 8 8 4
The Intaki Artists 8 8 5 7 6
Diplomats 8 10 3 7 6
Reborn 8 6 3 11 6
The Jin-Mei Saan Go Caste 7 7 6 7 7
Sang Do Caste 5 8 6 5 10
Jing Ko Caste 5 7 10 5 7
The Brutor Slave Child 4 6 11 4 9
Tribal Traditionalists 4 7 9 4 10
Workers 4 6 9 8 7
The Sebiestor Rebels 7 6 8 6 7
Tinkerers 11 6 5 6 6
Traders 7 10 5 6 6
The Vherokior Drifters 9 8 6 8 3
Mystics 8 8 4 8 6
Retailers 7 9 4 11 3

See also



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